[Emacspeak] Re: Mac server python version requirements, go version and intro

[Robert Melton <lists@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hey Tim!

Since I am hearing stuff I missed that you are quoting, I guess I missed 
some things!  So, I will respond to two levels at once, sorry!  Learning to 
do email again, side-quests. 


>> 3. Swiper never really worked for me, may be I just couldn't figure it
>>   out or didn't invest enough time figuring it out. 

swiper and swiper all are my main crutch right now but every day I learn 
more useful stuff in emacspeak!  Finally read tips and tricks and found 
how to monitor erc channels for changes!  yey!


>> 4. Do you see at all? Might  affect things like swiper,  helm et-al --
>>   for instance, helm is just too slow if you see nothing -- see
>>   relevant blog article on the emacspeak blog.


Yes, I still have some vision, and with a 43" monitor if I get it zoomed 
to a handful of words I can read them.  That said, while we are doing 
what we can to keep what I got it is a declining prognosis. 


> Hi Robert and welcome to the emacspeak community. I can appreciate your
> situation as pretty much the same thing happened to me about 27 years
> ago. I was a vi user who lost my sight and had to learn both Emacs and
> emacspeak as well as all the other challenges which occur when you lose
> your sight (you should have seen the disaster of me trying to
> cook!). The good news is that very steep learning curve is doable and
> you will eventually get there.

Thanks so much, so far pouring stuff has been my problem as I have a 
sincere belief I can hear when the cup is almost full, and I still believe it! 
Reality of my spills be damned.  Wife is doing all the dangerous cooking
for now, our stovetop is a flat black electric burner and I gotta find a way 
to instrument it before I play around with it.  


> Just in case it is helpful....
> 
> Raman's advice is very relevant. A lot of the 'wisdom' you will find
> when searching for tips regarding Emacs is very much focused on the
> needs of users who are accustomed to a visual user interface. Many of
> the 'must have' packages they talk about are of only marginal benefit to
> those of us who rely on an au

Yep, I got smart after a bit and started picking from the packages that TV 
already had supported in Emacspeak, this had two great advantages. The 
first was way less to choose from!  The second was knowing that would 
have some support. 

The deeper I dig into Emacspeak the more astounded I am by the level of
effort and concern for ergonomics that went into it. 


> I think the key to emacs and emacspeak is start simple. These days,
> especially with the current development versions of emacs, pretty much
> everything you need is already there. The addition of eglot (a LSP
> client), together with things like package.el, flymake and xref means
> you have all the essential building blocks for a powerful working
> environment already in emacs without any need to add additional
> packages. As these are built-in emacs features which use standard emacs
> facilities, you will also find they will tend to work better with
> emacspeak 'out of the box' than many external packages that have a more
> bespoke implementation.

Yep... got this message a little too late.  Some things are general and great 
like my beloved swiper, just helps me get to where I am thinking of... other 
things like jedi lsp mode for python feel like they were sent to this plane of 
existance to enrage me... I have never spent as much time angry at a plugin
as I have this... I really just wanted to jump to definition... I got an angry
and annoying overbearing thing that tries to interupt me as I type 
constantly... I do so much as add a comment, don't worry it wants to help me
with autocomplete!  *grumble* 


> The two most important things to learn initially are the Emacs help
> systgem (everything linked to C-h) and the info pages, especially the
> Emacs manual. There is sufficient depth of information in just the
> built-in help system and info documentation to keep you occupied for
> quite some time.

Yep, just starting to really get the hang of this... One of my side projects 
right now is generating a PDF manual for Emacspeak, one big file, 
because when I got started, I really had trouble navigating webpages and 
didn't know how to use emacs help yet, so it felt a bit hopeless .... 3 tries 
later and here I am! 


> One thing you will likely learn is that more often than
> not, external packages people recommend have a functionally equivalent
> built-in facility or package ready for you to use.  For example, I no
> longer use helm or ivy. Instead, I now use vertico, a completion UI
> which leverages off built-in completion facilities of Emacs and which is

I used to write a good bit about Vim, like the proverbs of Vim... and #10 was 
"Any sufficiently complicated set of Vim plugins contains an ad hoc, 
informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of 
Vim's features."

I guess I have to relearn even such simple things as "is this already built in?" 

Here was a rant I wrote about loathing vim plugins years ago ... 
https://www.vi-improved.org/loathing/



> In general, look for solutions already included in emacs, then ones
> included in GNU ELPA, followed by non-gnu ELPA and only when all of
> these have been exhausted, go to repositories like MELPA.
> 

But all the cool kids use MELPA!  Hehe, advice noted. 


> Goog luck

Thanks, and I feel a lot more sane after getting plugged into this community 
a bit.  Codoing speed is starting to notch up again again, so that lowers my
frustration a lot too... just need to uninstall jedi.